What about those Diadora Power Drive pedals? Those were really fantastic according to the 5 people who actually used them. Where are they now...
Sunday, January 12, 2014
Weird Expensive Pedals
Are back. These things are an interesting idea--no, I've never ridden them, but I have seen them in person and know of people who used them as their road pedals--but I wonder what the point is when there are so many freeking choices now, all of which are pretty fucking decent. The Coombe idea is also way too much metal on metal contact for my taste; the plastic cleats of the original Look pedals was absolute genius--the pedals were protected and the cleats were cheap and easy to replace. If the first Look pedals had been like the Coombes, I'm pretty sure we'd all still be Sean Kelly.
What about those Diadora Power Drive pedals? Those were really fantastic according to the 5 people who actually used them. Where are they now...
What about those Diadora Power Drive pedals? Those were really fantastic according to the 5 people who actually used them. Where are they now...
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They were excellent. Just like Time EQ Pro pedals... Which is why they got sued for patent infringement and were forced off the market...
ReplyDeletepower drives? did they get sued or did they just not sell?
Deletethe problem with the aborted coombe comeback is that by the time 2014 rolled around, everybody had a pedal that worked and that worked for them. no room for even a good idea in that market any more. the original looks worked pretty well, the first times were better, and after that, it was too hard to get into the game. look at speedplay--they are a tiny player, but smaller than speedplay is zero.
whatever happened to those pedals that were just a spindle with that awful semi-cylindrical cleat abortion? you can't fight shimano and look and time. the last chance to break in with a genius design was like 25-30 years ago.
cheers.
I am glad you at least stated that you never rode Coombe pedals. In the 1980's, through the 1990's, I raced on Look, Time, Shimano and Speedplay pedals, in that order. And they worked OK, some better than others, but in 2000 I bought a set of Coombe's original Pro pedals, and two extra sets of cleats, and I haven't looked back since.
DeleteThey were the best road pedals I've ever ridden - low profile, lightweight, easy to engage and really solid underfoot - and they were still working fine, about 40k miles later, when I traded them in for Coombe's new Millennium II pedals in 2014. These new pedals feel even slightly more solid underfoot with their larger platforms, and will likely last damn near forever based on my previous experience with the smaller Pro pedals.
At the same time, Shimano, Look, Time and Speedplay now make most of their pedal bodies with relatively cheap plastic composites that are not nearly as durable or reliable as their previous offerings, though the pricing is still basically the same, or even higher.
for nearly 500 bucks before you get to shoes for the new coombe pedals, well, shimano pedals are ubiquitous for a reason. or speedplays if you must. or ride old time equipe cuz those are still the best. unless you have more money than sense.
DeleteWith most of the high end pedals on the market already being around $200 - $250 with steel axles, and more like $300 - $400 with titanium axles, Coombe's Millennium II pedals (currently at $399 on their website) are pretty reasonably priced considering the build quality.
ReplyDeleteAnd they give a $150 credit for trading in any of their pedals (regardless of condition), so my cost was $249, and, back in 2000, I only paid $239 for the original Pro pedals. So my cost for riding Coombe pedals for nineteen years has been about $500, plus another $240, or so, for four sets of cleats. Only about $750 total, and with very little time spent to maintain them.
Comparatively, in the 5 years I raced on Speedplay pedals, I went through two sets of pedals (at about $180 a pair), replaced the bearings twice (about $80 total, plus my labor) and went through at least ten sets of cleats at 50 bucks a shot. So around $1000 total, not including the rather considerable amount of time I spent maintaining them.
So when you look at the cost of ownership over time, rather than just the entry price, Coombe pedals are less expensive to ride and maintain than Speedplays, and likely most others for that matter.
But regardless of cost, compared to the other pedals I've ridden, Coombe's original Pro pedals gave the feeling of being more directly connected to the cranks. Much better than Speedplay, in particular, which I finally abandoned because my feet were rolling too much to the outside, even with new cleats installed.
I got a set of the original Time's after seeing Big Mig and Lemond on them in the Tour. They are well built and impressive looking,,, and I really wanted to like them more than the original Looks I had been riding, even though they were a lot heavier. But the lateral float didn't work well for me, as my feet would just go to the far outside, making my stance to wide, and the re-centering float didn't work for me either, as I ride a bit more heel-out than where the pedals allowed me to go. So that was a bummer, not to mention how bad the cleats were to walk into the coffee shop, which lead me to putting those on the shelf. Obviously though, they were great pedals for those they fit well, and I wish they had worked for me.
So then I went and bought Shimano's version of Look's pedal. No surprises there, as it was functionally identical to Looks at the time. And they worked flawlessly for me, as Look's did too, but after drinking Time's Kool-Aid on low stack height, which made sense to me, I bought my first set of Speedplay's to give that another try. And I have to give credit to Speedplay for building a pedal that I wound up doing some of my best races on. But Coombe's pedals are noticeably more solid underfoot than Speedplay's, even when new, and Coombe's pedal bodies show almost no signs of wear, long after Speedplay's plastic bodies are worn out. It's like the difference between a throw-away plastic knife and a stainless steel chef's knife. And you get what you pay for....
By the way, I found your link on google looking for reviews on Coombe's new Millennium Pro pedal. It's hard to believe that it could be any better than the Millennium II's I am in love with, but it looks pretty interesting. More like Speedplay, but on steroids. ;-)
Cheers!
the new coombe pedals are close to 500, so that sounds absurd and dumb to me, but anyone can ride what they like.
Deletehowever, there's a reason why the original looks are still around even if they say shimano on them now, even though the time equipe pedals were better in most every way.
after a certain level of good-enough and affordable, nothing else matters.
DeleteI assume you mean because Look was the first to market with a design that worked "good-enough"(?). I think that's true, but I think if Time had not originally made their system exclusive to their own shoes, they could have done a lot better in the long run. And it's kind of sad at this point that Shimano sells more Look style pedals than Look even, but Look dropped the ball in keeping their quality level where it used to be, so that's what happens.
ReplyDeleteEither way, if good enough is good enough, none of us would be riding clipless pedals in the first place (just ask Sean Kelly, right). You know, we'd all still be riding Schwinns or Huffys or whatever, and driving Volkswagon Beatles.
But for me, and the rest of us cycling enthusiasts who have enough money to invest thousands of dollars in our bikes and gear, pedals are the last place I look to save a few bucks.
You know, no one can really feel the difference between a Chris King headset or hubs, compared to many alternatives that are half the cost or less,,, or the difference between a $5k versus a $1k carbon fiber frame and fork,,, or the difference between a $1k versus a $3k wheelset,,, but when it comes to pedals, shoes and saddles, everyone knows what feels best to them. And the difference between "good enough" and feeling great is worth paying a couple extra bucks for. It's how races are won...
i think you have it all wrong. look pedals were a huge improvement over toe clips and straps for many riders. i'm one; i had early season/early-in-the-ride pain for years before i tried looks, and that pain disappeared forever. the time equipes were better, much better in some ways, but for most/many riders, the look type pedals, especially distilled into the 21st century by shimano, were and are good enough. stack height is okay, float works okay, they are affordable, and the genius is in the cheap and easily replaceable plastic cleats. the pedals last and last. fwiw, i still use the time equipes, but shoes are no longer available, so when my last pair dies, i'll have to change pedals.
ReplyDeletenobody ever believed a schwinn varsity or vw beetle were the best of anything, but an 80s derosa or early 2000s nagasawa are still nearly perfect examples of road racing style bikes, and a mazda 3 or gti of any vintage are better for almost anyone than og beetle. a 911 is faster, but the others are good enough for most people on most roads as daily drivers.
i don't think most serious road riders look--see what i did there--to save money on pedals, but shimano sl pedals do work well, and though cyclists often tend to be complete idiots as a group who chase useless and/or overpriced crap like disc brake road racing style bikes and 27.5" wheel mountain bikes because someone tells them it's cool, none of it means it's good policy or a good way to spend money or that it makes bikes better, except for the bike and component companies.
but clipless pedals were a legit improvement for many/most riders.
as far as chris king stuff goes, i know for a fact that you can sure as shit tell the difference between a 1-1/8" chris king threadless headset on a mountain bike compared to the alternatives. those king headsets survived years and years of hard use in conditions where the sub-$50 heeadsets lasted 2-3 months at best. could they be overkill in some applications? sure, but they are/were the right tool for certain jobs if you were willing/able to pay the price.
the hubs are fine, especially 20 years ago if you wanted everyone to know how much money you spent, but now there are so, so many overpriced boutique hubs out there that the kings are no longer unique.
given the success of the original look design, it's very hard to argue that it wasn't good enough to win races ridden by the very best riders and/or cheaters in the world of pro cycling. i never said they were the best, but if you want an example of 'good enough', good enough to win the biggest races, good enough to be the entry-level pedal for a new or newly serious rider, good enough to last no matter how much and how hard you ride, the look-style clipless pedal is it.
if you have the money/time/desire to be an iconoclast, knock yourself out. there's always a contrarian out there no matter the merits. but pro and other sponsored racers at every level use, and are expected to win with/achieve the goals of the sponsorship with, what the sponsor supplies, as long as it's...good enough.
the look pedals were a great leap forward--sean kelly might have been an early evangelist if the money had been there. all the improvements since have been at the margins. the boutique pedals and their marginal improvements can and do have their place--speedplay is a great example of boutique almost breaking out--but if the original look design and its modern iterations had not been good enough, they would not have been so widely adopted.
DeleteIn my neck of the woods, I see about as many Speedplays on the club rides and races as anything else. And almost every shop in my area carries them, where as some don't carry Look for example. So I think Speedplay has grown into far more than a boutique pedal system, and at this point has probably been raced to victory in as many big road races as any pedal.
ReplyDeleteAnd at this point, I think many thousands would agree that they are better than good enough, in comparison to Look for example.
What's funny to me though, is that Speedplay's latest Pave pedals are an obvious, inferior knock of Coombe's original design, but they still don't work for shit if you get any dirt or mud in the cleats, where as Coombe pedals tend to shed dirt and mud quite well.
And considering that the Coombe M2 pedals with hollow steel axles weigh the same as the Paves with more flexible ti axles, have a noticeably more stable platform, are more reliable and last much longer, while actually costing less than the Pave's with ti axles (especially over time), I think, if anything, you should have called out Speedplay's Pave as weird and expensive knock offs of Coombe's superior design.
From my experience, Coombe pedals are hands down superior to Speedplays in pretty much every way, making them better than what many already consider being better than good enough. And truly the only high-end pedals on the market with a build quality on par with Chris King components for example.